Comments for geekredemption.com http://geekredemption.com For the SURVIVING & THRIVING Modern Human Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:01:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by rob http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-89 rob Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:01:25 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-89 I think you agree with me but it's hard to tell with all that joking around...:) I think you agree with me but it’s hard to tell with all that joking around…:)

]]> Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by Paris http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-88 Paris Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:46:26 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-88 Ann, you sound so interesting, intelligent and needless to say paganist. Before you start flaming let me inform you, "intelligent and interesting" was just me being polite. Now that your head has reached and animal like state of confusion thinking how to devour me, let me inform you that. 1. Law of nature: Some eat, some get eaten, period. 2. Bred for food - quite a great idea, considering that otherwise, species would have been wiped out by now. Or perhaps you would like to consider not having children and help solve the problem so breeding stops? (oh please dear God) 3. Could you ever kill your baby? No. Could you ever kill somebody elses baby? No. Could you ever kill somebody else? Sure, would it change if somebody named him baby? 4. The chicken did the egg or the egg the chicken? Hm, could be aliens who started it all LOL :p (point 4 is there to actually critisize you, if you can't get it then you're probably right. If you can get it then you're absolutely wrong) Ann, you sound so interesting, intelligent and needless to say paganist.
Before you start flaming let me inform you, "intelligent and interesting" was just me being polite.
Now that your head has reached and animal like state of confusion thinking how to devour me, let me inform you that.
1. Law of nature: Some eat, some get eaten, period.
2. Bred for food – quite a great idea, considering that otherwise, species would have been wiped out by now. Or perhaps you would like to consider not having children and help solve the problem so breeding stops? (oh please dear God)
3. Could you ever kill your baby? No. Could you ever kill somebody elses baby? No. Could you ever kill somebody else? Sure, would it change if somebody named him baby?
4. The chicken did the egg or the egg the chicken? Hm, could be aliens who started it all LOL :p
(point 4 is there to actually critisize you, if you can't get it then you're probably right. If you can get it then you're absolutely wrong)

]]> Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by rob http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-87 rob Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:15:27 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-87 <p>OK, those are excellent questions. Very searching...</p> <p>I believe the Soil Association are in the process of changing the rules so that calves are no longer slaughtered. I realise that sounds pretty cold but I'm not happy about many things in the world from grain monocultures, to aircraft fuel CO2 emissions... So I compromise & sometimes buy organic standard food as opposed to food that I know *exactly* where it came from & what the practices were. I still believe it's more humane to engage with the farming practices that exist (ie my pigs project) rather than just try to ignore them all together. This is not a perfect answer but when I consider all the factors together, ethics, the environment and my own health also I've decided on this path of engagement and compromise.</p> <p>Yes I am fine with the killing of wild animals for food. They live freely in the wild and would die a wild death whether it's at our hands or not. If it is at our hands then we have a greater connection to the ecosystem which I believe is a good thing. Dogs and cats I guess I'm fine with in principle though I'd be very cautious of specific cases not having ever eaten either.</p> <p>Granted I've met many people who've got health problems due to too much meat. But on the other hand I know of several high profile vegans who've run into trouble like me or worse (& I have met many more since) Rob Hull of Funky Raw magazine, <span class="st"> Susan Schenck, the old man Stanley Bass & Natasha St Michael of Raw Radiant health went through a hell of a time before recovering from a vegan diet. I've seriously rarely even heard of, let alone met anyone who has paid as much attention to their diet and lifestyle as I have in a sincere quest to improve my health and my relationship with the world around me.</span></p> <p><span class="st">I have read dozens and dozens of health books - the majority of them advocating veganism or something close to it. My own personal experience and common sense says they're just plain wrong - usually with excellent motivation. That said, in my terms they're probably not as wrong as the vast majority of the western world that just picks up the cheapest chicken on the shelf.</span></p> <p><span class="st">Thanks for your questions. Believe it or not, I appreciate being challenged on this. I really haven't got it all worked out yet & this helps.</span></p> OK, those are excellent questions. Very searching…

I believe the Soil Association are in the process of changing the rules so that calves are no longer slaughtered. I realise that sounds pretty cold but I'm not happy about many things in the world from grain monocultures, to aircraft fuel CO2 emissions… So I compromise & sometimes buy organic standard food as opposed to food that I know *exactly* where it came from & what the practices were. I still believe it's more humane to engage with the farming practices that exist (ie my pigs project) rather than just try to ignore them all together. This is not a perfect answer but when I consider all the factors together, ethics, the environment and my own health also I've decided on this path of engagement and compromise.

Yes I am fine with the killing of wild animals for food. They live freely in the wild and would die a wild death whether it's at our hands or not. If it is at our hands then we have a greater connection to the ecosystem which I believe is a good thing. Dogs and cats I guess I'm fine with in principle though I'd be very cautious of specific cases not having ever eaten either.

Granted I've met many people who've got health problems due to too much meat. But on the other hand I know of several high profile vegans who've run into trouble like me or worse (& I have met many more since) Rob Hull of Funky Raw magazine, Susan Schenck, the old man Stanley Bass & Natasha St Michael of Raw Radiant health went through a hell of a time before recovering from a vegan diet. I've seriously rarely even heard of, let alone met anyone who has paid as much attention to their diet and lifestyle as I have in a sincere quest to improve my health and my relationship with the world around me.

I have read dozens and dozens of health books – the majority of them advocating veganism or something close to it. My own personal experience and common sense says they're just plain wrong – usually with excellent motivation. That said, in my terms they're probably not as wrong as the vast majority of the western world that just picks up the cheapest chicken on the shelf.

Thanks for your questions. Believe it or not, I appreciate being challenged on this. I really haven't got it all worked out yet & this helps.

]]> Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by Ann Conroy http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-86 Ann Conroy Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:01:31 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-86 Rob, I'd like to ask you a serious question, and I'd be interested to hear your answer. I'm not being flippant. If someone who had a pet dog or cat (or rabbit ... or pot-bellied pig) killed it to eat it, would you find this acceptable? If not, why not? Rob, I'd like to ask you a serious question, and I'd be interested to hear your answer. I'm not being flippant. If someone who had a pet dog or cat (or rabbit … or pot-bellied pig) killed it to eat it, would you find this acceptable? If not, why not?

]]> Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by Ann Conroy http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-85 Ann Conroy Sun, 05 Feb 2012 21:06:23 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-85 I have just checked out your whoyacallinpigs.org. Of course there are such farms as the one you videoed - one is right on my doorstep here in the Wirral. I still do not condone the killing. I assume you're a supporter of Compassion in World Farming? (Are you aware that Joyce da Silva, who used to run it, is a vegan?) I used to live on a farm that was primarily a dairy farm. I'd be very interested to know if you would support the kind of animal raising practised on this farm. They had about 350 cows, who were treated with antibiotics and generally kept healthy. The farmer regularly missed out on his sleep when a calf was born in the night. The female calves were removed from their mothers at around two days old to be raised as dairy cows, and the male calves were shot in the head. Standard dairy farming practice. I used to regularly see, and hear, cows who had recently given birth searching and calling for their calves.   I used to know a vegetarian who kept hens. But they 'had to' kill male chcks, as they would otherwise fight. Again, standard practice - even among supposedly caring hen keepers. You say that if I believe that killing is just plain wrong then I deny a part of my own nature and a part of the natural world around me. Yes, killing is a part of nature - at its worst. I, in effect, kill in order to feed my cats. I accept that they need to kill in order to live. I do not. At least that is something that we as humans can choose not to do. Would you also condone the killing of wild animals for food? Do we come to the real crux of the matter as far as you are concerned when you say that you lost weight when living as a vegan? All I can say to this is that I have been a vegan for 20 years without suffering any ill effects. I always suspect that those who say that not eating meat makes them ill are simply not being careful with their diet in the first place. I have never personally come across a vegan (or even a vegetarian) who suffered ill health because of it. I have, however, come across many who suffered ill health because of a diet high in animal products. Look up the health advantages of being vegetarian - I can't believe that you, with personal experience of vegetarianism and veganism, can actually believe it to be healthier to eat the flesh of other animals. Ann       I have just checked out your whoyacallinpigs.org. Of course there are such farms as the one you videoed - one is right on my doorstep here in the Wirral. I still do not condone the killing. I assume you're a supporter of Compassion in World Farming? (Are you aware that Joyce da Silva, who used to run it, is a vegan?)
I used to live on a farm that was primarily a dairy farm. I'd be very interested to know if you would support the kind of animal raising practised on this farm. They had about 350 cows, who were treated with antibiotics and generally kept healthy. The farmer regularly missed out on his sleep when a calf was born in the night. The female calves were removed from their mothers at around two days old to be raised as dairy cows, and the male calves were shot in the head. Standard dairy farming practice.
I used to regularly see, and hear, cows who had recently given birth searching and calling for their calves.
 
I used to know a vegetarian who kept hens. But they 'had to' kill male chcks, as they would otherwise fight. Again, standard practice – even among supposedly caring hen keepers.
You say that if I believe that killing is just plain wrong then I deny a part of my own nature and a part of the natural world around me. Yes, killing is a part of nature – at its worst. I, in effect, kill in order to feed my cats. I accept that they need to kill in order to live. I do not. At least that is something that we as humans can choose not to do.
Would you also condone the killing of wild animals for food?
Do we come to the real crux of the matter as far as you are concerned when you say that you lost weight when living as a vegan? All I can say to this is that I have been a vegan for 20 years without suffering any ill effects. I always suspect that those who say that not eating meat makes them ill are simply not being careful with their diet in the first place. I have never personally come across a vegan (or even a vegetarian) who suffered ill health because of it. I have, however, come across many who suffered ill health because of a diet high in animal products. Look up the health advantages of being vegetarian – I can't believe that you, with personal experience of vegetarianism and veganism, can actually believe it to be healthier to eat the flesh of other animals.
Ann
 
 
 

]]> Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by rob http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-84 rob Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:11:59 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-84 1. I do not ignore the factory farming. It's something I feel passionately about. I haven't eaten factory farmed meat in many years now (including six of which where I was vegetarian) and don't intend to. In addition I put a huge amount of work into http://whoyacallingpigs.org/ a project to campaign against factory farming. 2. I have visited several farms where the animals are treated with a huge amount of respect and love. There was not a trace of the attitude that we are 'higher' beings - more an understanding that their welfare is directly linked to our own. It was not something I was able to appreciate so clearly whilst I was vegan. Obviously I can only speak for myself there, it may be different for others. 3. Death and killing are already a part of nature. We can either hide from them or meet them on our own terms. If you believe that killing is just plain wrong then you deny a part of your own nature and that of the natural world around you. 4. We don't breed our own species because a human would suffer in such circumstances in a way that an animal would not. That is the entire basis of my argument. I'm curious. How would you feel if you had been vegetarian and then vegan for many years and started losing weight whilst overeating and eventually came to the conclusion that your health would continue a downward spiral *unless* you began eating animal products again? And when you did, the downward spiral reversed rapidly... I must also point out that my ethical beliefs had already moved (from an abolitionist vegan standpoint) towards believing meat eating to be a superior, or at least equal moral position. My only reticence at this point was an emotional one at the thought of eating meat again. 1. I do not ignore the factory farming. It’s something I feel passionately about. I haven’t eaten factory farmed meat in many years now (including six of which where I was vegetarian) and don’t intend to. In addition I put a huge amount of work into http://whoyacallingpigs.org/ a project to campaign against factory farming.
2. I have visited several farms where the animals are treated with a huge amount of respect and love. There was not a trace of the attitude that we are ‘higher’ beings – more an understanding that their welfare is directly linked to our own. It was not something I was able to appreciate so clearly whilst I was vegan. Obviously I can only speak for myself there, it may be different for others.
3. Death and killing are already a part of nature. We can either hide from them or meet them on our own terms. If you believe that killing is just plain wrong then you deny a part of your own nature and that of the natural world around you.
4. We don’t breed our own species because a human would suffer in such circumstances in a way that an animal would not. That is the entire basis of my argument.

I’m curious. How would you feel if you had been vegetarian and then vegan for many years and started losing weight whilst overeating and eventually came to the conclusion that your health would continue a downward spiral *unless* you began eating animal products again? And when you did, the downward spiral reversed rapidly… I must also point out that my ethical beliefs had already moved (from an abolitionist vegan standpoint) towards believing meat eating to be a superior, or at least equal moral position. My only reticence at this point was an emotional one at the thought of eating meat again.

]]> Comment on I Eat Meat Because I Love Animals #animalwelfare by Ann Conroy http://geekredemption.com/i-eat-meat-because-i-love-animals-animalwelfare/comment-page-1/#comment-83 Ann Conroy Sat, 04 Feb 2012 21:37:17 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=217#comment-83 You just don't get the point, do you? I am a vegan, not because I disagree with animals being in captivity but because I believe killing is just plain wrong. I am also aware that most animals bred for the meat, dairy and egg industries are NOT happy little creatures who live their lives without suffering. You use emotive words like 'heart', 'karma', and 'greater consciousness' to justify your taste for meat, and you ignore the factory farming which you state that you deplore. Where animals are bred there's usually cruelty somewhere; at the very least there's the attitude that animals are there for us to do as we like with since we are the 'higher' beings. You remind me a little of how I used to justify my meat-eating - by saying that if we didn't eat animals these animals wouldn't have a life. True, but entirely beside the point. Perhaps you should consider going one step further in your justification. Why not breed our own species? Try reading Jonathan Swift's satirical essay on just this subject! You just don't get the point, do you? I am a vegan, not because I disagree with animals being in captivity but because I believe killing is just plain wrong. I am also aware that most animals bred for the meat, dairy and egg industries are NOT happy little creatures who live their lives without suffering. You use emotive words like 'heart', 'karma', and 'greater consciousness' to justify your taste for meat, and you ignore the factory farming which you state that you deplore. Where animals are bred there's usually cruelty somewhere; at the very least there's the attitude that animals are there for us to do as we like with since we are the 'higher' beings. You remind me a little of how I used to justify my meat-eating – by saying that if we didn't eat animals these animals wouldn't have a life. True, but entirely beside the point.
Perhaps you should consider going one step further in your justification. Why not breed our own species? Try reading Jonathan Swift's satirical essay on just this subject!

]]> Comment on Take off your shoes and smile #barefoot by Alison http://geekredemption.com/take-off-your-shoes-and-smile-barefoot/comment-page-1/#comment-55 Alison Sat, 05 Nov 2011 08:16:06 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=176#comment-55 I'm always up for a foot massage, so when you put it like that... Just find the cold pretty hard to bear - but I guess if my circulation improves, that should become easier? I'm always up for a foot massage, so when you put it like that…
Just find the cold pretty hard to bear – but I guess if my circulation improves, that should become easier?

]]> Comment on Michael Cobley’s Orphaned Worlds by rob http://geekredemption.com/michael-cobleys-orphaned-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-53 rob Fri, 04 Nov 2011 07:56:56 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=113#comment-53 <p>Awesome, thanx Chris, I'll put that one on my list... So many great sci-fi books & not enough time to talk about them:). The Quantum Thief (by a guy who's name I cannot spell...) turned out to be a hell of a page turner too - at least once you get past all the new age/biotech jargon...</p> Awesome, thanx Chris, I'll put that one on my list… So many great sci-fi books & not enough time to talk about them:). The Quantum Thief (by a guy who's name I cannot spell…) turned out to be a hell of a page turner too – at least once you get past all the new age/biotech jargon…

]]> Comment on Michael Cobley’s Orphaned Worlds by Chris C http://geekredemption.com/michael-cobleys-orphaned-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-52 Chris C Fri, 04 Nov 2011 07:24:15 +0000 http://geekredemption.com/?p=113#comment-52 This post showed up in my RSS feed reader but was not shown on the blog main page -- is it because it is uncategorised? Thanks for the tip -- I'm in the market for a good space opera so will check out Michael Cobley. You might want to check out the Gap Series by Stephen Donaldson. It is an incredibly well-written, grimly psychological space opera about a future run by all-powerful mining corporation (and a lot else besides).  The first book (which is short) is a particularly grim but the series builds into an astonishing piece of work -- I think the bleak start probably meant that it garnered less popularity than it deserved. This post showed up in my RSS feed reader but was not shown on the blog main page — is it because it is uncategorised?
Thanks for the tip — I'm in the market for a good space opera so will check out Michael Cobley.
You might want to check out the Gap Series by Stephen Donaldson. It is an incredibly well-written, grimly psychological space opera about a future run by all-powerful mining corporation (and a lot else besides).  The first book (which is short) is a particularly grim but the series builds into an astonishing piece of work — I think the bleak start probably meant that it garnered less popularity than it deserved.

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